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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: PRICEO
Date: December 28, 2019 12:30PM
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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: LE.JAG
Date: December 30, 2019 05:01PM
Some pictures

no official video yet
but here is an idea of the separation = gold / iron

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubQ8sMSADSE

the end product being even better
detect a gold ring under nails
detect a gold ring under a 20gr lead bullet
detect a gold ring / in volcanic sand

now possible



Fischer--Aquamanta // Pulsepowers Goldscan 5C // Nexus coronado // Vista Gold

( sorry for my english )




Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: OldBeechnut
Date: December 30, 2019 05:46PM
Many Thanks LE JAG and Rick!! Can't wait, First thing is too get the skullie tubes hooked up! I'll be digging deeper faints in All Metal then you LEJAG! :wink:

Wow! Even a great improvement even on the stockers!! Which are, I believe GGA II blue cup version? Come on "AQ"



Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....1 Silvers ...2




Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: December 30, 2019 06:49PM
Quote
lytle78
.....9. Pulse devices have always had a problem - no discrimination. Now the problem is solved and this means that you can walk in all places as if not knocked out. ....

I hate to be a kill-joy, but I'll bet the "Devil is in the details" on this point. Any time, in the past, that various pulse machines have tried to incorporate discrimination (telling iron apart from conductive), then: You will loose depth if you intend to implement it. Ie.: It will not discriminate to the full-depth of the fabled pulse ability. So : Nagging doubts will send you digging a bunch of deep whisper bent nails "just to be sure".

So on the one hand, they can tout "discrimination". But by the time you're done implementing it (ie.: electing to use it), you are left with no more depth than a standard discriminator. And with the other inherent drawbacks of a pulse: Very squirrelly operation.

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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: LE.JAG
Date: December 30, 2019 08:09PM
Quote
Tom_in_CA
Quote
lytle78
.....9. Pulse devices have always had a problem - no discrimination. Now the problem is solved and this means that you can walk in all places as if not knocked out. ....

I hate to be a kill-joy, but I'll bet the "Devil is in the details" on this point. Any time, in the past, that various pulse machines have tried to incorporate discrimination (telling iron apart from conductive), then: You will loose depth if you intend to implement it. Ie.: It will not discriminate to the full-depth of the fabled pulse ability. So : Nagging doubts will send you digging a bunch of deep whisper bent nails "just to be sure".

So on the one hand, they can tout "discrimination". But by the time you're done implementing it (ie.: electing to use it), you are left with no more depth than a standard discriminator. And with the other inherent drawbacks of a pulse: Very squirrelly operation.


the devil is always in the details
the AQ system
is really innovative, but of course it has limits

its limits / tipping points
are determined by the mass of metals

the weight of the target in gold
the weight of the iron / you want to cut

if you only cut a hairpin // OR A LITTLE NAIL

the loss will be less than 10%
(take into account that AQ is deeper than the others)
so it's not bad / as a result

of course, if you cut an iron bar of 100gr or more
the loss will increase ...

The process is reversed
on large gold targets / weighing more than 40gr ....
depending on the carat / 10k being easier to take than 22k ....( reject mode)



Fischer--Aquamanta // Pulsepowers Goldscan 5C // Nexus coronado // Vista Gold

( sorry for my english )

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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: lytle78
Date: December 31, 2019 08:21AM
Tom, your post begins with a false statement “ I hate to be a kill-joy, ” Admit it - you love to be a kill-joy!!!

A specific statement in your post is [But by the time you're done implementing it (ie.: electing to use it), you are left with no more depth than a standard discriminator. And with the other inherent drawbacks of a pulse: Very squirrelly operation.” /i]“

This contains two errors. The AQ using discrimination is still deeper than any existing beach detector. Second, the operation is not in the least bit “squirrely” The threshold is smooth even at max power and the action of the muting or tone of iron is straightforward.

The short answer to your post Tom is wait and see. I have several times tried to explain how the AQ differs in power and depth from anything you have ever used on a salt beach - even when using discrimination - all to no avail. I predict that your often repeated assertions (based on never having seen or handled a Manta or an AQ) will be totally disproved.



Rick Kempf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2019 08:29AM by lytle78.


Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: December 31, 2019 09:59AM
Quote
lytle78
.... wait and see. I have several times tried to explain how the AQ differs in power and depth from anything you have ever used on a salt beach - even when using discrimination - all to no avail. I predict that your often repeated assertions (based on never having seen or handled a Manta or an AQ) will be totally disproved.

I certainly hope to eat crow. I'm just basing my (yes) kill-joy predictions based on the past introductions of pulse machines. That were said to have some rudimentary form of disc. I don't need to mention their names. But I'm sure you know which ones I'm referring to. And while "insane sensitivity " (squirelly-ness) sounds like a wonderful thing (who can argue with finding tinsel thin chains, eh ? haha) yet: There are times and locations (junky turf, for example) where a person DOESN'T want the 'bells of notre dame" to ring on every pinhead. Doh ! :/ :stars:

Anyhow, yes: I hope to eat crow. I have been on certain beaches, after storm erosion, that I was shut out of hunting certain zones d/t heavy black sand pockets. Yet I knew for a fact that they held goodies, because I was eyeballing silver coins right on top, that .... the standard machines would just blank out on (d/t the jet-black-mineralized sand). I would have loved to have had a pulse machine at those times. But those times/locations are few & far between in my area. And since I don't care for the lack-of-iron ID, I've never gone to a pulse for the beach. A few people around here have tried it, but they are sent packing from nail-ridden beaches. Even though they claim they can discern nails by-their-sound, yet .... they don't seem to last long on nail-riddled storm-eroded beaches.

Would love to do some side-by-side flagged target tests, if anyone is in the Monterey bay area of CA with one of those.

Lytle78 :
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: December 31, 2019 10:30AM
lytle-78 : Excuse my forum-ignorance, but : I just perceived that you are down near San Diego, eh ? That's about 7 hrs. from my area. If you ever feel like an over-nighter or weekender trip, would love to have you come up. We're slated to get raked by a swell on Jan 2nd. Although the tides suck for this NW direction-of-swell (only a 4.4 high tide), yet I'm going to be stubborn and try anyhow :wacko:

I would take you to a certain nail-riddled beach, where the dunes had been used for municipal dumping back at the turn of the century. Back in the days when no one would have dreamed that .... 100 yrs later erosion would eat back that far into the dunes . D/t sand-mining upstream of this area, for glass production. Also a burned down pier in this location. So go figure: The iron ratio is overwhelming. Even larger iron, like pipe cr*p, large I-bolts, etc... . Pulse machines have never lasted more than 20 minutes here . Doh ! But when erosion happens, (every couple of years) at this area, coins back to reales and gold coins have shown up.

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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: lytle78
Date: December 31, 2019 10:33AM
Tom, thanks for letting me have some fun with your post.

One thing about the AQ which I hadn’t observed myself was pointed out to me by Alexandre when he was going through the one I got to make sure it was up to spec (it is). When I asked about sensitivity to tiny gold, he told me that it is NOT optimized for thin chains, earring backs and similar - this is done on purpose since he and his French beach detector friends are satisfied that it is a waste of time to pursue these - the really good part of all that is that tiny bits of foil will likewise not be detected.



Rick Kempf

Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: December 31, 2019 11:20AM
Quote
lytle78
.... When I asked about sensitivity to tiny gold, he told me that it is NOT optimized for thin chains, earring backs and similar - this is done on purpose since he and his French beach detector friends are satisfied that it is a waste of time to pursue these - the really good part of all that is that tiny bits of foil will likewise not be detected.

Great followup.

I totally agree with you and Alexandre : Why bother ? It would take 100 "tinsel thin chains" or 100 "earring studs" to equal the weight of a single ring. NOT THAT I WOULD ARGUE with finding gold in any shape or form but : In some environments, that comes with horrible drawbacks.

For example: When the 800 first came out , it touted the ability to find micro-jewelry as an option. Eg.: tinsel thin chains and earring studs. Since , of course, it's a cross-over nugget machine, thus ... sure micro-jewelry is similar. So I took it out to the dry-sand portion of a certain millionaires touristy beach, where .... over the years ... I've pulled 100+ silver coins using standard machines. It stood-to-reason that my "standard machine" was missing micro-jewelry. Eh ? And sure enough , when I set the 800 to hyper-sensitive mode, I was SHOCKED at the avalanche of signals, from places that my Explorer, Excal, etc... would be totally silent over. Investigating each of these conducive flutters produced ttteeennnsssyyy little foil turds. Like the type where a bit of foil gets under your finger nail when you're un-doing the foil-top to a wine bottle, for example. So I immediately thought: "Bingo ! I'm going to get some micro-jewelry !". But an hour later, and handfuls of "teensy foil turds" and other such "specks", I began to ask myself : Do I really want micro-jewelry this bad ?

The only exception might be on the wet, after mother nature has washed out all the light stuff during erosion: Perhaps foil-turds aren't present there ? Leaving only dainty-chains with are more dense ? Still though : It would be a low priority.

The only way someone could pass teeensy foil turds with the TDI, (when accepting low conductors) is to rely on their ears. And that's when it becomes very "squirrelly". And nagging doubts will send you digging a bunch "just to make sure". If the AQ mimics standard machine type sounds/operation, and can cut black-minerals like a pulse, and have good iron disc and/or TID, and have the fabled pulse depth, then : I'm all ears.

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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: LE.JAG
Date: December 31, 2019 11:58AM
for black sands
the hardest / mineralize
impulse AQ will be the best
if the standard Tone & Mute rejection is not sufficient
the volcanic mode will crush all resistances
(with of course a loss in depth ..)

each of the three Tone / Mute / Volcanic modes
being configurable for the rejection knob

since the last upgrade / you can take a 24k ring
under an iron nail
(ring less than 10gr I have not tested a heavier 24k)

it was still impossible / a few months ago
this gives an idea of the Gold / iron separation

and with the next smaller coils
separation / will be even better

I hope to make a video on the year 2020
a hunt on the Thames at low tide
with 8 inch AQ
to prove that he can find good targets
in a scrap carpet
and I have no doubt: he will find ..



Fischer--Aquamanta // Pulsepowers Goldscan 5C // Nexus coronado // Vista Gold

( sorry for my english )

Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: bklein
Date: December 31, 2019 12:06PM
My GP Extreme seemed to pass right over those foil bits - even larger foil balls - but have superior depth on larger targets over the eq800 and equinox (and DF/surf pi’s).
My next project is to somehow make it lighter and water-resistant (I bought a second one, without battery, as the project machine).
It will be interesting to see what it’s like when you come across a good concentration of targets - if there remain a significant amount of targets below what guys get with their EQ’s and others. It might be a battle over who can dig the most holes rather than who has deeper targets.

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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: LE.JAG
Date: January 05, 2020 05:16PM
Quote
bklein
My GP Extreme seemed to pass right over those foil bits - even larger foil balls - but have superior depth on larger targets over the eq800 and equinox (and DF/surf pi’s).
My next project is to somehow make it lighter and water-resistant (I bought a second one, without battery, as the project machine).
It will be interesting to see what it’s like when you come across a good concentration of targets - if there remain a significant amount of targets below what guys get with their EQ’s and others. It might be a battle over who can dig the most holes rather than who has deeper targets.

equal size (ring / pull tab)
aluminum to a shorter audio curve
in free fall at the end
gold gives a stretching sound
with a little experience we make the difference.....
the more compact the sand / the more perfect the sound on gold

with AQ you can detect
a gold ring among a handful of nails
including under the nails

same thing with the ring under the sand
and the nails on the surface
it doesn't matter / it's not reactivity
he does not see the iron

to tipping point / limit
determine by mass of iron and / or gold
he sees iron as ground ...

and it can detect gold in and under the volcanic sand
the GP can't do it

an example on this video

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubQ8sMSADSE

the factory machine is even more selective
the gold / iron separation has been improved



Fischer--Aquamanta // Pulsepowers Goldscan 5C // Nexus coronado // Vista Gold

( sorry for my english )

Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: bklein
Date: January 05, 2020 11:48PM
Is the reason the gp can’t see the ring in iron because by design the gp will blank the audio on the iron? Same with the CTX... I suspect the gold signal is there but the designers made a decision to blank iron or sound iron just because most of the time there is no iron and anything that is iron is junk at a beach. Pi’s already had the reputation of sensing gold/coins in black sand. Congrats on realizing beach hunters don’t really care to hear iron targets but sure do want to hear the gold and designing a 7uS machine that can.

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Re: Finally - some news about the Manta - its the Fisher Impulse AQ
Posted by: LE.JAG
Date: January 06, 2020 07:48AM
Quote
bklein
Is the reason the gp can’t see the ring in iron because by design the gp will blank the audio on the iron? Same with the CTX... I suspect the gold signal is there but the designers made a decision to blank iron or sound iron just because most of the time there is no iron and anything that is iron is junk at a beach. Pi’s already had the reputation of sensing gold/coins in black sand. Congrats on realizing beach hunters don’t really care to hear iron targets but sure do want to hear the gold and designing a 7uS machine that can.

the gold signal is there, but gp and ctx cut the iron
the AQ system is different
he sees the iron as ground / to the tipping point / limit
determine by mass of iron and / or gold

the one who developed this machine is Alexandre Tartar / French engineer
He now works for FTP
there is a nugget version in development (with ground balance)

+ he is working on another project
pulse Bipolar / Bipolar technology on a Pi
consists of alternating positive and negative pulses
(+ - + -) at high speed / PPS / to suppress the ground effect
it works, I tested the first prototype (beach)

I think it will be even better / volcanic and nugget ..



Fischer--Aquamanta // Pulsepowers Goldscan 5C // Nexus coronado // Vista Gold

( sorry for my english )