This forum is currently read only. You can not log in or make any changes. This is a temporary situation.

Vintage Detecting Forum

Welcome! Log In Register
Here's an interesting read @ the birth of Teknetics
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: September 26, 2017 09:17AM
I recall in about '83, seeing the first ever Teknetics with target ID. Shown by a dealer at a club meeting, where he had the machine propped on a table, doing demonstrations for the 25-or-so attendees. Bear in mind, that at this time in history, all of us were accustomed to "progressive dial" discrimination . Where .... if you want to loose round tabs, you WILL ... of necessity, loose nickels and so forth. Or if you wish to loose aluminum foil, you WILL ... of necessity ... loose small gold rings. Etc....

The dealer waived a nickel. It gave a distinct tone. Then he waves a tab. It gave ANOTHER distinct and DIFFERENT tone. Then he waved a gold ring. It gave YET A 3rd DISTINCT and different tone. The crowd was spell-bound with awe ! Dollar signs appeared in all of our eyes. With images of digging gold rings till our arms fell off, while effortlessly leaving foil and tabs behind. Doh !

Naturally, as we all know, a million aluminum objects exactly mimic a million gold rings. The variations are endless, so to pick 3 random target examples was not going to show the true array of objects that appear in the field. But at the time, you can imagine how groundbreaking this was :)

For a look back at the concept invention, here's a cool legal briefing that surrounded the Whites Co. vs. creation of Teknetics. Interesting read:

Re: Here's an interesting read @ the birth of Teknetics
Posted by: Dave J.
Date: September 26, 2017 12:34PM
I don't know the actual factuals relating to the core invention that made the general idea practical, that Payne said he came up with after leaving White's employ. However I can speculate based on the following:

1. In electronic circuits, multiplication and division are difficult to implement and still have them accurate over a wide dynamic range. There are ways to do it (I've done it) but the bottom line is that the various methods have limitations and we're always wishing there was a better way.

2. there's this thing we call "the Payne Circuit" which does analog division in the time domain. It was the basis of the original Teknetics target ID system and is still in use today in some of our products. The Payne Circuit is very ingenious, I'd never have thunked it up in a thousand years.

3. to my knowledge, White's has never used that circuit in any of their products. For that matter, I've never seen it anywhere other than in Payne legacy metal detector platforms.

Therefore I draw the same conclusion that the Judge did; and that the key ingredient was the Payne Circuit.

thanx Dave !
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: September 26, 2017 06:34PM
Dave, thanx for your input. I love reading your post on any forum. A great contribution to the hobby, discussions, etc....

How does George's circuit differ from thr PRG?
Posted by: vlad
Date: September 29, 2017 07:15AM
Just i.d.; as GB and motion were not in practice when the PRG emerged, from Technos Inc.around, 72?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2017 07:18AM by vlad.

Re: How does George's circuit differ from thr PRG?
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: November 07, 2017 01:02AM
Vlad, did you ever find a PRG?

Re: How does George's circuit differ from thr PRG?
Posted by: vlad
Date: November 18, 2017 11:26AM
last one I heard of was in Oz

Tom, that would have been a 'B' version that was demonstrated.
Posted by: Monte
Date: December 02, 2017 09:17AM
When Teknetics came out in '83 and had their CoinComputer 8500 and 9000 models, brining us visual Target ID, it was an awakening for many manufacturers and engineers in the industry. They required that super-swift sweep speed to get any decent performance out of them, but visual Target ID was born. Then George Payne stepped it up a bit with the 8500 "B' and 9000 'B' versions that then incorporated Audio Tone ID. And look where we are almost thirty-five years later when it comes to two of the more popular features folks want in a detector. Visual Target ID and Audio Tone ID.

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews ... or ...
Nokta / Makro: FORS CoRe, FORS Relic, Racer 2 and Simplex + also using Makro and Pulse-Dive Pinpointers
Tesoro: Bandido II ┬ÁMAX and Silver Sabre ┬ÁMAX ... White's: modified IDX Pro ... XP: ORX ... Fisher: F44
Headphones: Killer B's 'Hornet' and 'Wasp' -- Detector Pro Gray Ghost XP
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

Re: Tom, that would have been a 'B' version that was demonstrated.
Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: December 06, 2017 09:14AM
Thanx for chiming in Monte. If the TID ability in the meter swing was out by 1983, then when did the "B" model get on the market ? Ie.: the ability to have audio tone ID , and not just a needle bounce ?

Because the dealer demonstration I watched at a club meeting way-back-then, had audio differences. So therefore it must have been the "B" model that you speak of. I am guessing it was 1983 or 1984 when I saw this.

Besides people's mistaken assumption that you could use this to "pass all aluminum" and "dig only gold", was : I recall one prolific beach hunter in the room that immediately sized up the potential to pass high conductor (pennies, dimes, etc....) on the beach, and hunt only for low conductors (since most all gold rings are mid to low conductors). That was a thought that we have since employed many times, when the eroded beach has SO many targets to choose from, that you eventually start to rationalize : "Who wants coins?" Doh!

Re: How does George's circuit differ from thr PRG?
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: December 16, 2017 08:19PM
I found one a while back but the seller wanted new prices for it, which would be like $850! So I passed!

Re: Here's an interesting read @ the birth of Teknetics
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: December 16, 2017 08:24PM
I bought my first Tek 8500 right after Christmas in 1983. And I know that the 9000 had been out arlready since my mentor had one and that is what motivated me to get the 8500. I think that it was a "B" model but frankly do not recall.

Guys the 9000 & 8500 were out in '82...
Posted by: vlad
Date: January 07, 2018 09:37PM
I had moved to Memphis in May of that year and was selling them-got them from my distributor, John Rein at Music City detectors in Nashville.
A.M. Van Fossen had them in Dec of '81 or Jan., of '82-he brought 2 over to Beaumont at a hunt to show me.

Posted by: Tom_in_CA
Date: January 08, 2018 12:32PM
Yes. A look at the Treasure mag's from 1982 show that they were available starting in 1982. The Mark I wasn't out till '85 or '86 though. The sweep speed got slowed down, the tones got better, etc.....

I wish I could go back in time to 1982, and have bought one of those first ones. And to have had it during the beach storms that hit the CA coast in the winter of '82-83. Oh-to-have-only been able to pass pennies/dimes then, haha

You could have called Kellyco
Posted by: vlad
Date: February 13, 2018 05:43PM
they had the PRG made by Technos starting about '72.
Around 11" on a quarter at Florida (low mineral) beaches.

Re: Here's an interesting read @ the birth of Teknetics
Posted by: This Dwayne
Date: February 14, 2018 06:08PM
Could someone please tell me the year of production on the Mark 1 Red Box,,, Mark 1 Grey Box,.. and the Mark 1 Green Box? Are there any difference in the p.c. boards? I know the Red Box has the colorful meter.


Re: Here's an interesting read @ the birth of Teknetics
Posted by: straker
Date: February 14, 2018 09:12PM
The first Mark 1 had a gray box and came out either in late 1984 or early 1985. The red box Mark 1 LIMITED with colored blocked meter came out in 1986. I didn't know there was a green box Mark 1?