Findmall.com
 
 


This forum is currently read only. You can not log in or make any changes. This is a temporary situation.




Vintage Detecting Forum


Welcome! Log In Register
PHASE READOUT GRADIOMETER (PRG)
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: July 29, 2007 12:39PM
I was reading some of the old posts and came across some comments about the PRG! I decided to post my comments here instead of in a past post! The PRG was way ahead of its time ! As far as I can tell it was the 1st TID machine! It came out in 1974 and although it only sold about 50 or so, I believe that it laid out the foundation for others to follow! It would take Whites and Teknetics another 6 years to come up with the next TID machine! The PRG was basicly a TR with a sensor in its searchcoil which along with a numeric meter read the targets conductive value from 0 to 100! Does that sound familiar! I believe its downfall was its price($850.00 in 1974 dollars) and weight(7 pounds). Many people could not afford it, so had to make due with more affordable models! I recently have seen the patent info on it, but haven't seen one since the late 1970's! Wonder what happened to the 50 or so that they did sell?! One may be in the Garrett Museum? Alot of these were purchased by elderly indiividuals so now I'm assuming that they have passed on and these detectors must be sitting in someones closet just gathering dust! Our descendents do not always cherish and love our detectors like we do! So some of these detectors wind up on @#$%&, in the trash or in someones garage sale! I'd like to see someone find one and at least post pictures of it! On the other hand, I do not think that it would be very competitive with todays modern TID machines! It was a TR so it had a lot of problems with mineralization! In neutral ground, it could not be beat! But it did have problems with IDing deep targets!(Sounds like some of our newer detectors) Any one seen one lately or seen one in the past...............................I would like to hear your stories...........................HH..........Joe

Re: PHASE READOUT GRADIOMETER (PRG)
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: July 29, 2007 12:49PM
The 2nd TID detector was actually the Roach/Metlsensor! It sold even less detectors than the PRG! Although its price was about half of the PRG, it was not very popular! It had a double square coil and it was to be used walking in a straight line, no sweeping was recommended! Even for today anything this unconventional would not be very popular. Also $400.00 in 1976 was still alot of money and most detectorists stuck to models that were more affordable again!.........................HH..............Joe

Re: PHASE READOUT GRADIOMETER (PRG)
Posted by: Steve(MS)
Date: July 29, 2007 01:03PM
I did a search for info on the web a couple of years ago, didn't find anything except the patent on it. It would be interesting to see one and if it was in working order that would be even better.

Re: PHASE READOUT GRADIOMETER (PRG)
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: July 29, 2007 01:54PM
Steve, I did a search too but did it today! Seems like at least a few people are lookin for one but in working order! Even if one is found, I doubt it would be in working order! I heard in the late 1970's that its meter was malfunctioning and had to replaced! I believe that this meter replacement is what cause the PRG's downfall! Seems like with today's technology that a replacement meter could be found for one. Of course one has to find the actual detector 1st in any type of condition!.........................HH............Joe

Re: PHASE READOUT GRADIOMETER (PRG)
Posted by: Steve(MS)
Date: July 30, 2007 12:15AM
This is a fascinating detector that no one has made many comments on how it well it works. Oh yeah, someone commented on one forum somewhere that is only did well on Florida beaches. Still, I don't think we have seen a best non-motion detector taken to its full potential. There is a lot of info in non-motion but the perfect detector should be able to also disc in non-motion, at least disc out small nails, most of the older detectors with non-motion that also has some form of disc end up limiting depth because they can't make them to do that and ground balance at the same time. At least the meter on this one would help ID iron if it works well. Wonder if anyone has a schematic so that one could be built?

Not Garrett
Posted by: UK Brian
Date: August 03, 2007 09:48AM
Can't remember which American company brought the PRG to the market at that time but it wasn't Garrett. The reason it failed to sell, apart from price, is that it didn't work on land....beach conditions fine but mineralised ground, no.

Re: Not Garrett but...
Posted by: UK Brian
Date: August 03, 2007 11:08AM
TECHNOS. Weighed in at over seven pounds. Coil must have been about five inches thick.
Nice and sensitive with great iron rejection but could in no way cope with negative minerals, which was a real pity as salt water had no effect what so ever and twin and multifrequency were still a long way off.

PRG: I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A GARRETT!
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: August 03, 2007 04:10PM
Brian, I never said that the PRG WAS A GARRETT! I only mentioned that one may be in the
Garrett Museum since the PRG was featured in some of his early books! I WISH THAT IT WAS A GARRETT THEN MAYBE MORE INFO ON THE PRG WOULD BE AVAILABLE. From my knowledge not much exists today about this detector. All I could find was the Patent info, and old ads in long-defunct Treasure magazines! Technos still exists but they have lost all data concerning this detector. Besides working good at the beach it was very good in Neutral ground! I heard that at least one was taken to Great Britain during the mid-1970's and the detectorist came back to America with a pot full of coins found individually!........................Joe

Re: PRG: I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A GARRETT!
Posted by: UK Brian
Date: August 06, 2007 02:58AM
Sorry when you said one of the fifty made might be in the Garrett collection....can't ever see them keeping machines from other manufacturers.
I got in a few hours detecting with the machine in the mid 70's I think. Crippled me for weight. Also didn't find any ground neutral enough for it to excel over the other machines of the period.

Coming home with a pot full of coins is no guide to the machines performance as a hundred coins a day could be managed easily on many beaches the limit was as to how long your back lasted with digging the holes.

Re: PRG: I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A GARRETT!
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: August 06, 2007 08:54AM
My referral to a pot full of coins found individually wasn't a referrence to the machines performance but more or less a statement that the majority of sites back then was Virgin Territory and finding 100's of silver coins in a span of a few days was not uncommon for this machine! I also had useage of one of these mchines and I can testify that I found 100's if not 1000's of silver coins in very trashy parks and schoolyards!................HH.............Joe

Anyone use the Nexus?N/T
Posted by: Mark L
Date: August 07, 2007 05:57PM

(This message does not contain any text.)


NO BUT GEORGE CHAUSHEV DID RETURN MY EMAIL!!!
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: August 07, 2007 06:22PM
Can't afford one at this time, the lowest price of one is around $1200. with the top of the line around $2400. This is really a Deepseeker and probably compares in depth with the Saxon-1. Not for use in areas of shallow targets and one needs to carry a shovel to retrieve targets with this detector! (A backhoe may be needed as a back-up!!!) I did see one on @#$%& a while back so at least a few are in the USA!............The @#$%& seller mentioned that he dug a railroad iron rail at 10 feet deep-he said that the signal was similiar to iron cannon so he had to investigate!!!.......HH...................Joe

Yes...and the Ultradepth
Posted by: UK Brian
Date: August 09, 2007 10:58AM
Nexus can be used as a coinshooter with the restricted depth of the small coil but if you want real depth on larger items then you have to buy the Ultima version (around $5000). For some reason Georgie won't sell you the large coil by itself. Could be the machine has to be specifically tuned to the large coil.
Much better discrimination at depth with the Nexus but they both share the problem of not being able to cope with wet sand or high mineralisation.
Nexus with small and mid coils is lighter in use than the Saxon. The Saxon, unless things have changed recently, is limited in that there's not a range of coil sizes.

Re: PRG: I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A GARRETT!
Posted by: UK Brian
Date: August 09, 2007 11:21AM
You refered to coins being brought back from the U.K. At that period there were other machines in use that could manage and beat the 12 inch depth of the Technos and operate on the sites that the P.R.G. didn't work on.
They didn't manage to get a U.K. distributor and even you finding 'hundreds, if not thousands' of silver coins didn't buy one !

Re the 70's being a golden age of detecting, modern type machines (non motion) were being produced by Fisher, Goldak, Rayscope, D Tex, Whites, Relco, Gardiner and many others ten years before that and the more primitive ones ten years earlier again.

Re: PRG: I WISH THAT IT WAS A GARRETT!!
Posted by: Joe(TX)
Date: August 09, 2007 01:41PM
Although the 1970's was the GOLDEN AGE OF METAL DETECTING, the discriminator did not show up until 1973 or 1974, and most only had limited discrimination, that is they could only discriminate tin foil, bottle caps and small nails! Full discrimination was not available yet! So when the PRG came out in 1974, it was a major improvement over anything available at the time, since it featured a numeric TID meter! Yes it was too heavy and did not have ground balancing capabilities but still for its time it was a major improvement over any else available! Remember that at this time the VLF or GEB detector was still on the drawing board and would not appear till 1975 or 1976! The PRG's depth although not bad did not go as deep as the VLF's and deep targets would not register corectly!.................................... Also..............on the PRG............WHO SAID THAT I NEVER HAD ONE!..................HH..................Joe